Is Jesus the Only Mediator?

As a Southern convert, I hear versions of this refute against Catholicism all the time; I see them in comment boxes on blog posts that involve the Catholic priesthood, especially.

Mediator

They go something like: I’m a born again Christian. I don’t need (a pope, prayers of saints, forgiveness from priests … ) any other mediator than Jesus. Don’t you know the Bible says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). As though never a Catholic has seen that verse.

I get it. I was Southern Baptist. I was raised to view Catholicism with suspicion at best and contempt for its “hell-bound” and “legalistic” doctrines at worst. But I know better now.

History as Mediator

I once knew in part and prophesied in part; but when exposed to the fullness of the faith in 2000 years of history I gorged on the feast whole, and my theological scraps were swallowed up in plenitude. Like St. Paul, “When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways” (1 Corinthians 13:11).

So I have a few questions for those who vociferously maintain that Jesus is their only mediator. In what matter, exactly, is he your only mediator? Your creation? Did not your parents assist with that? And if your very creation was not accomplished solely through him, what is?

In the words of Catholic philosopher, Josef Piper, “Being created by God does not suffice, it would seem; the fact of creation needs continuation and perfection by the creative power of human love.”

Person as Mediator

Indeed. Did Jesus carry you in his womb? And after your conception, gestation, and birth, what then? Have you not been fed, clothed, educated, loved, provided for, and protected by someone who is not Jesus unto this day?

As St. Catherine of Sienna says: “All virtue and all vice come by way of your neighbor.” Did not everything you received from him, even grace and all that is eternal, come to you in some part through another person? “What have you got that was not given to you? And if it was given to you, why are you boasting as though it were your own?” (1 Corinthians 4:7).

To the one who thinks Jesus is the only mediator, I would like to ask:

Does everything you know about Christ come from Christ himself? Did Jesus baptize you? Did Jesus teach you to read or read the Scriptures to you? Did Jesus hand-write your Bible, gather its writings, or physically protect the Deposit of Faith for 2000 plus years until you could receive it from his literal mouth?

Everything that happens in the spiritual life (and otherwise) comes to us from God through our neighbor. God does not appear in order to physically baptize me himself, and you don’t baptize yourself. You are baptized by a person.

You don’t need saints to pray for you? Then why ask me to? I’m no saint, and if you don’t need a real saint—like an actual, in-heaven-before-Jesus-saint—praying for you, you definitely don’t need me or anyone else this side of heaven to.

But if you pray to ask Jesus into your heart, you know that prayer or are led in it through another person. You are led in worship by a person. You are prayed for by other people. You are taught the Word of God by a person. And people even forgive one another! All the time if they’re obedient to Jesus, “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

Yet we don’t say the person himself did the preaching or teaching or baptizing or saving or even forgiving (because it’s often too hard); we know that God does those things through the person for us.

Priest as Mediator

Catholic confession and forgiveness through a priest follows the same pattern. The Pharisees also made the “God is the only mediator” claim against Jesus in this very matter: “No man can forgive sins, but God only” (Luke 5:21).

And yet Jesus told the apostles, “If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven. If you retain anyone’s sins they are retained” (John 20:22-23).

Jesus gave them a special power and authority through the Holy Spirit to carry out that command, and they passed on that power and authority to others through the laying on of hands. The writings of the early Church indicate they understood confession the way the Catholic Church has understood it since then.

Can you see how ridiculous it is to force 1 Timothy 2:5 to say, then, that Jesus is the only mediator? What does St. Paul mean, then?

Love Is Mediator

When we read the Bible with the whole Church throughout her history we know he means that Jesus is the absolutely unique Mediator whose sole sacrifice is able to make eternal atonement for sin and therefore reconcile men eternally with God. All other mediators draw their efficacy from his office, insofar as they cooperate with and unite their efforts to his.

To the degree we take seriously the responsibility to mediate and reconcile with others, we ourselves will be saved: “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses” (Matthew 6:14-15). “As you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me” (Matthew 25:40).

The same is true of our neighbor, so that Jesus could have also said, “As you received it from one of the least of these my brethren, you received it from me.”

Jesus told St. Catherine of Sienna, “I could easily have created men possessed of all that they should need both for body and soul, but I wish that one should have need of the other, and that they should be My ministers to administer the graces and the gifts that they have received from Me …

“It is true, however, that the acts, unless made through love of Me, profit them nothing so far as grace is concerned. See then, that I have made men My ministers, and placed them in diverse stations and various ranks, in order that they may make use of the virtue of love” (Treatise on Divine Providence).

St. Paul said it first. After speaking on spiritual gifts and the duty and privilege of offering them to Christ in service to his body for the common good, St. Paul maintains it must all be done in, with, and through a love that is itself divine ( see 1 Corinthians 12-13).

It Is the Lord

The activity of God, then, is somehow in every person and always present, but it is visible only to the eye of faith. Because our senses can see only the creature, we are often taken by surprise and do not recognize it is him until he has passed us by. If we watched with vigilant attention God would endlessly reveal himself to us in our neighbor.

This is why Jesus marveled at the faith of the Roman centurion (Matthew 8:10) who saw what the Pharisees couldn’t, and what many of us won’t: there is never a moment when God does not approach us in the mediation of another person, so that at every encounter we might exclaim, “It is the Lord!” (John 21:7).


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Why Pray to Mary and the Saints?

St. Stephen: First Martyr and Witness to the Essence of Christianity

HIS Story Is YOUR Story – Part 4

Sonja Corbitt

Sonja is a Scripture evangelist, wife, homeschooling mother, author and radio show host from Nashville. Her Bible study show, Bible Study Evangelista, broadcasts on Breadbox Media. Her books are available wherever books are sold. Find her at biblestudyevangelista.com.

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  • David Cuff

    Catholic Doctrine is not sound.

    You shouldn’t add or take away from the scriptures. It says that in Revelation 22:18-19

    Jesus is 100% God and 100% man he is the only perfect sinless mediator between us and God the Father. (Not Mary or anyone else)

    Persons who have been born again by the Holy Spirit are Saints because we have been cleansed of all of sin through Christ Jesus. His blood washes us clean of all sin and unrighteousness.

    Anybody on this side of the grass can pray for anyone else who is on this side of the grass.

    Asking someone who has died to pray for you is not sound Doctrine.

    The Bible is black and white, there’s too much interpreting going on that doesn’t need to be interpreted. Again Catholic Doctrine is not sound.

    • James

      I agree, brother.And let our catholic brothers not argue to defend their religion but to learn and get transformed.Luther and his collegues were staunch left catholicism because they were able to see wrong doctrines. They got transformed and transformed the church, I don’t know where we would be.!!

  • Krista

    this article is completely taken out of context. wow!! way to fit it to your catholic legalistic humanistic perceptions. this is off, wrong on so many levels. Yeshua YHWH Jesus Is the only Mediator. so sad to hear you once knew that and now “you know better now”, smh. i pray for you to find your way back to Christ who is the only Mediator between us (His Saints) & God. also, off topic— God does NOT have a mother, Jesus did, but not God. stop idolizing Mary. she is not our mother, she was human, and highly blessed. projecting Mary as mother of God – puts Mary at the head- ahead of God & certainly above Christ. why you dont see ther error of that- is the strategy of satan.
    smh-
    you catholics are in my prayers.
    Krista

  • Alexander Petzinger

    “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,”. 1 Timothy 2:5. Only God can forgive sins, and Christ, being God, has the power to do so as well, but He never communicated any such power to His disciples, nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves. The key to understanding the meaning of John 20:23 lies in the previous two verses: “Again Jesus said, ‘Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.’ And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” He sent them, as He is sending us (believers in Christ) to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world. Jesus was leaving the earth physically but promised God would be with them in the person of the Holy Spirit living in them. As they proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in that message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven and that they stand condemned in God’s eyes. Jesus said, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36). NO WHERE in Scripture does it state that the saints in heaven are interceding on behalf of the saints on Earth. IT DOES say “ Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.“ Romans 8:34 (and Hebrews 7:25) . Sonja, I fear you have a wrong idea of who the saints of the Church are. The “saints” are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are saints—and at the same time are called to be saints. First Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly: “To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy…” The words “sanctified” and “holy” come from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated “saints.” Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the biblical description and calling of the saints. Sadly, the majority of Roman Catholics DO NOT read their Bible and are woefully ignorant of of what it actually says because they are misled by many Roman Catholic traditions that are clearly antithetical to what the Bible says. Many years ago as a Roman Catholic I was in the exact same ignorance.

  • Richard Spurlin

    You demonstrate a fundamental ignorance of the meaning of the term “mediator”. A “mediator” is a peacemaker, one who reconciles two or more conflicting parties into agreement and resolution of their dispute. The word translated as “mediator” in the original text of 1 Timothy 2:5 is “mesites” derives from “mesos” meaning “in the middle”. The word properly conveys the notion of an arbiter guaranteeing the performance of all the terms stipulated in a covenant. Jesus Christ is the Only One who accomplishes our reconciliation with Father God.

  • Baboi George

    \o// When we’re sick we go to doctors, for legal matters to the lawyer, etc. for professional help to the untrained mortals like us ! For Spiritual and psychological well being of a faithful person depending upon the capacity need a third party to counsel and advice to move on in life. The Priest OR anyone praying by laying the hands on the individual does not REPLACE the biblical term:”one mediator” ie. JESUS who ONLY can forgive SINS… [On Apostle’s Fast – June’18]

  • Mark 2017

    .
    Sorry concerning this length response.

    I’m slightly confused by your definition of mediator.

    The bulk of what you say like… quote:

    ………………….History as Mediator
    I once knew in part and prophesied in part; but when exposed to the fullness of the faith in 2000 years of history I gorged on the feast whole, and my theological scraps were swallowed up in plenitude. Like St. Paul, “When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways” (1 Corinthians 13:11).

    So I have a few questions for those who vociferously maintain that Jesus is their only mediator. In what matter, exactly, is he your only mediator? Your creation? Did not your parents assist with that? And if your very creation was not accomplished solely through him, what is?

    In the words of Catholic philosopher, Josef Piper, “Being created by God does not suffice, it would seem; the fact of creation needs continuation and perfection by the creative power of human love.”

    Person as Mediator
    Indeed. Did Jesus carry you in his womb? And after your conception, gestation, and birth, what then? Have you not been fed, clothed, educated, loved, provided for, and protected by someone who is not Jesus unto this day?

    As St. Catherine of Sienna says: “All virtue and all vice come by way of your neighbor.” Did not everything you received from him, even grace and all that is eternal, come to you in some part through another person? “What have you got that was not given to you? And if it was given to you, why are you boasting as though it were your own?” (1 Corinthians 4:7).

    To the one who thinks Jesus is the only mediator, I would like to ask:

    Does everything you know about Christ come from Christ himself? Did Jesus baptize you? Did Jesus teach you to read or read the Scriptures to you? Did Jesus hand-write your Bible, gather its writings, or physically protect the Deposit of Faith for 2000 plus years until you could receive it from his literal mouth?

    Everything that happens in the spiritual life (and otherwise) comes to us from God through our neighbor. God does not appear in order to physically baptize me himself, and you don’t baptize yourself. You are baptized by a person.”………………………..

    None of those things that you site are examples of what a mediator or mediating is.

    Also you quote:
    ………………………………..”You don’t need saints to pray for you? Then why ask me to? I’m no saint, and if you don’t need a real saint—like an actual, in-heaven-before-Jesus-saint—praying for you, you definitely don’t need me or anyone else this side of heaven to.

    But if you pray to ask Jesus into your heart, you know that prayer or are led in it through another person. You are led in worship by a person. You are prayed for by other people. You are taught the Word of God by a person. And people even forgive one another! All the time if they’re obedient to Jesus, “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

    Yet we don’t say the person himself did the preaching or teaching or baptizing or saving or even forgiving (because it’s often too hard); we know that God does those things through the person for us”………….

    Again, none of those things that you site are examples of what a mediator or mediating is.
    You quotes are examples of intercession”………………….

    A dictionary and my understanding of the definition of mediator is: a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between……………………..

    This quote of yours I do agree with.
    ……………………………..”When we read the Bible with the whole Church throughout her history we know he means that Jesus is the absolutely unique Mediator whose sole sacrifice is able to make eternal atonement for sin and therefore reconcile men eternally with God.”……………

    I also disagree with your statement of “gorging on the whole feast”,….. if by that you mean that you have the full knowledge of the faith. (See verse 12)
    You quoted only verses 9 and 11.

    1 Corinthians 13:9-12
    8 Love never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
    9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    I definitely know that I am in err in some if not much of my full understanding of all the scriptures (word of God) and so some of my comments may be tainted by my incomplete understanding of all things.

    We can agree to disagree, for Christ and the fullness thereof will be revealed at His returning.

    Much Love & Peace be with you Sonja. =)

    .

  • jack dillon

    The Roman Catholic idea that we can pray to Mary, mother of Jesus, or deceased saints in heaven is not scriptural. These people are not divine. They do not have the capacity or the authority to handle such matters.

  • jack dillon

    St. Paul’s point that Jesus is the one mediator, is that He is the only one who has the ability to mediate the new covenant, since He is the only God-man, and the only one who can function as the second Adam.
    “… All other mediators draw their efficacy from his office, insofar as they cooperate with and unite their efforts to his” is not mediating the new covenant in the sense that Jesus does, but rather mediating in the sense of cooperating with God in the unfolding of His plan. This does not make them co-mediators, because the mediation is of a different kind.

  • gdbenn

    You are skipping the all important vital point…”In My Name”…

    “In My Name you shall…”
    “Whatsoever you shall ask in My Name…”
    “Without Me you can do nothing…”

    Jesus is the ONLY way. He is the One who ever lives to make intercession for us…

    No one else is our substitute. He only is our propitiation.

    If we are born again Christians, we are saints and fellow citizens and of the household of God.

    Mary played a great role. David played an important role. Abraham is the father of faith. You and I have an important role to play. BUT JESUS, He is the mediator.

  • WillRamez

    I am now a born again CHRISTian (but was brought up as catholic since birth).. & thanks for letting us understand the viewpoint of this mediator issue.

    One thing i am really confused is, if the catholic teaching is biblical, then why all the statues in their churches? All statues of all sizes for sale of Jesus, Mother Mary, Saints, Rosary, pendants, etc..

    It is said that we should pray & worship God (which is of spirit) in spirit.

    Why do catholics display all these carved images? Isnt it against bible teachings?

    Reference:
    1.) Exodus 20:4-5
    2.) Leviticus 26:1

  • Random Boy 3 m

    “The Pharisees also made the “God is the only mediator” claim against Jesus in this very matter: “No man can forgive sins, but God only” (Luke 5:21).”
    Jesus is God which is why it was invalid. The only reason they were wrong was because of the person they were using it against, the argument all by itself was correct though.

  • Faithful

    I would agree with you that we have many earthly mediators, but the scripture refers to Jesus as being the only mediator necessary between man and God Himself, therefore it is no longer necessary to confess our sins to a priest or any other human to receive Gods forgiveness. Jesus’ death on the cross allows us to approach God directly, where as before his death, animal sacrifices were required. The High Priest of the Old Testament would approach God in the Most Holy place of the temple, where God resided among the people, to offer the blood of an innocent animal as a sacrifice for his sins and the sins of the people which they committed the year before. We no longer have animal sacrifices because Jesus, who was perfect, was the perfect and final sacrifice. The temple veil divided in two at the time of Jesus’ death on the cross was symbolic of the dividing wall between God and man kind being destroyed. We now can confess our sins directly to God and Jesus will mediate those confessions before God.

    It is important to confess sins to God and persons that you have wronged for the sake of reconciliation. In the words of Matt Moore “if we know and love Christ, our souls have been bathed in the justifying waters of the Gospel. But our spiritual “feet”, which are continually dirty by the filth of this world, still need regular washing. Even though the sins we commit as regenerate believers do not nolify our salvation, they do fracture our relation with God. And until a fracture is mended by a fresh application of Gods forgiving love we will grown in pain just like King David did when he failed to confess his sin and seek forgiveness. Christians continue to confess sin and seek forgiveness not to attain salvation but to maintain a clear conscience before God and preserve fellowship with him. By Jesus, a single sacrifice, we have been eternally perfected (Hebrews 10:14). But right now, as we wait the full glorious realization of our purchase perfection, we are in daily need of Christ’s feet cleansing, conscious-clearing forgiveness .”

  • gar md

    From Peter to us:

    Acts 4:12New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

    and from Paul to us;

    For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.
    1 Timothy 2:5 | NIV |

    From Isaiah:
    Isaiah 42
    The Lord’s Chosen Servant ( about Jesus)
    …7 To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon. And those who dwell in darkness from the prison. 8 “I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.”…

    obey the simple verses , stop following teachings construed by false ideas from demonic spirit influence. Please look at all the words expressed by marian aparitions , the ones accepted by the Catholic Church and you will see that they contradict the word of God. They ascribe to her what belongs to Christ alone, So you have to make a choice. Do i follow what seems to be spirit revelations or do I follow the written word of God.

    Again from Paul: before Marian cult existed was an issue
    Galatians 1:8
    No Other Gospel

    … Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!…

  • Random Boy 3 m

    And you didn’t explain why Jesus called himself “one mediator”. If you are right then we have the wrong enterpration yet you haven’t shown us the right enterpration. So far all that you did was smear everything from praying for someone to baptisng people as being “mediators”.

    • Albert Devasahayam

      Paul was emphasising the pre-eminent and unique and all sufficient nature of Jesus’ mediation. Yet Jesus shares his mediatory role and office with us his disciples and ministers so that we too become mediators in some way. Paul also tells us that God has entrusted to us the ministry of reconciliation. One cannot be a reconcilor without being a mediator. When we love one another as Jesus loved us, we also mediate God’s love to others. If Jesus were the only mediator without sharing his office with his disciples, then the spread of Christian faith will depend entirely on God’s work without any human involvement at all. In such a case, the whole of the Christian economy of salvation will collapse.

      • Random Boy 3 m

        “One”

      • Krista

        you must have missed this:

        Matthew 27:50-51 says, “And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom.” Notice the details: 1) Jesus died, 2) the enormous 45 to 60-foot high, four inch thick curtain was torn in half, and 3) the tear was from top to bottom, clearly indicating the destruction was not man-made, but came from God.

        This connection between the death of Jesus and the torn veil is not just about God’s power, but is demonstrative of who Jesus is, what the cross accomplished, and the access we have to God through Christ. Hebrews 8:1-2 notes, “Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.” Jesus Himself now serves as our high priest. There is no longer a need for a Jewish high priest to stand before the Lord and make atonement for our sins. Jesus has provided for our atonement through His death on the cross.

  • Baboi George

    \o// The Indian Orthodox Church does NOT insist on CONFESSION to a Priest – Although it is mandatory before taking Holy Communion, the best solution given is an ABSOLUTION by the Priest ! This involves laying of his hands on the forehead and pleading to “GOD” on behalf of the “CHURCH” which entrusted upon him as ‘Shepherd in Christ’ to forgive the sin of the person who is going to take Holy Communion, and moving on with his life: This is Intercessory Prayer – Nothing to do with Jesus Christ as Mediator !! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/97f6c5ab678b1445c564136c1dd2575c1bc2bdc2b7f4eb736d22ba38c2c49ecc.jpg

    • john

      Read the bible, study the bible , the new testament is the answer for the question. Why jesus only the mediator.

  • olhg1

    For Roman Catholics, Jesus is God Almighty, i.e., Power Itself. Roman Catholics, like everyone else, undergo the full gamut of human existence-ecstatic joy to miserable pain-and frequently seek help to “make it through the night.” For some folks, their immediate “Go to Guy” is Jesus God Almighty, and that’s understandable, seeing that He said “Come to ME, all you who labor and are heavily burdened.” For others, as the the history of the Church describes, it seems that when Jesus doesn’t come through for them, they go to other, less than powerful spiritual persons. Or they go to these other people before they go to Jesus. For a lot of thinking folks, this relying on someone else other than Jesus is an insult to Jesus, and find it difficult to believe statements like “Well, that’s what Jesus wants us to do.”

    • Ellen D-Reger

      Do you not ask your fellow believers to pray for you? Is that an insult to Jesus? I believe intercession for others is expected of us. So, if intercession is expected of me, how can I intercede for others without knowing of their need? Logic says that one way I might know of their need is for them to ask for prayer. To whom do the saints pray? To the Father through Jesus in the Spirit – whom they see face-to-face. If the prayers of the saints rise as incense before God, for whom are they praying? If they are truly alive as Christ himself is truly alive, then why can’t I ask them to include my needs in their prayers? I am often busy, preoccupied with watching traffic as I drive, interacting with others, watching my p’s and q’s of daily life. I know that my fellow believers here on earth are just as busy, even when they intend to pray for me. It is a comfort to know that others are continually praying for me to God. I don’t promote that person to the status of God, but I do consider those who have are before God as living and breathing humans, fully realizing the true human destiny. So, I rely on them to pray for me to God who is the giver of all good gifts. Both the Bible and the Catechism teach me this.

      • olhg1

        Jesus is God Almighty. In the Gospels He states that HE is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that all who are in need must come to HIM. If folks think that they have anything apart from HIM, well remember that He said “apart from ME, you can do nothing.” The Church’s Dogma-Revelation-hasn’t changed since His Ascension and the death of the Apostles who did wonderful works in the Name of Jesus God Almighty. Customs, cultures, and understandings have.

        • Sonja Corbitt

          olhg1, With great love, no one is arguing differently. You are absolutely right: Confession and forgiveness TO JESUS through the priest has been practiced from the beginning of the church and maintained by the Catholic Church even through the protest-ant split. The writings of church history prove it.

          In fact, everyone used to have to confess and do “satisfaction,” or penance, publicly, before they were readmitted to the Eucharist. But there was a deacon who had an affair, and when the woman confessed it publicly it created such a scandal it was decided it might be wiser to make it private! I, for one, am thankful for that!

          • James

            Let’s talk Bible not the early church said or did, elevating what the church said without a Bible backup is what brought reformers to break from RCC

      • Tommy

        If you ask them to pray to Mary or the Saints, absolutely it is an insult. Why pray to a saint when you can pray to Jesus Christ directly? Why confess to a priest when you can repent to Jesus Christ? Why try to place so many between you and Christ?

        Do you not believe in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Do you believe the God of all creation is too busy to hear us? The Apostles never prayed to Abraham, Moses, David, Elijah, Elisha, etc.

        Jesus Christ died for me. The Holy Spirit was sent to help guide us. No man comes between us and Jesus Christ. If fellow Christians pray for me or I pray for them, it is to Jesus Christ.

        That does not makevme a mediator in the sense Paul spoke. I have ZERO power to forgive sins or do anything. Jesus Christ has a direct connection to you and nobody else can offer you Salvation.

        • Bill Moylan

          Well said !!!

        • Jeffrey Gavin

          As a recovered catholic, my view closely coincides with your view Tommy. You worded it quite well and I have little to add or change. Thumbs up!

        • Albert Devasahayam

          There is no insult at all intended to Jesus when we pray to our Blessed Mother Mary or to saints just as the people of Israel never intended to insult Yahweh when they repeatedly asked Moses to intercede for them even as Yahweh was present in their very midst. When the Psalmist asks angels and heavenly beings to praise God, he is not insulting God by taking recourse to angels to praise God, which he could do directly. The beauty of Christ’s mediation is that he shares it with his disciples, the believing community. When Jesus asks us to preach the Gospel, he is asking us to be mediators of his saving Word; when he asks us to love one another, he asks us to be mediators of God’s love, forgiveness, etc. St. Peter tells us that we are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, which we means that we share in the kingly and priestly office of Jesus, precisely that of mediation. Just as we ask the living to pray for us, we can ask those in heaven to pray for us because they are also alive as members of the same believing community. Moreover, the book of Revelation tells us that the saints in heaven continually pray by offering incense to God, the incense being the prayers of people on earth. Another reason why Jesus shares his mediatory role with us is that we are co-heirs with Christ. Thank you.

          • James

            Fine, if we are praying to God the Father and only through Jesus Christ, why do you pray to Mary and other saints? Bytheway are these saints and Mary omnipresent, a God’s attribute?? If not, how can they hear your prayers, if they are, are they divine??

          • Albert Devasahayam

            Dear James, it is a very common question as to how saints including Mother Mary can hear our prayers; are they omnipresent or omnipotent like God to be able to hear our prayers? I don’t know whether they are really omnipresent or omnipotent like God; but it is certain that they have certain divine powers. The second letter of Peter says, “His divine power has given us everything needed for life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust, and may become participants of the divine nature (2 Pet 1:3-4). Peter says that God’s divine power can make us participants of divine nature. God’s divine nature certainly includes omnipotence and omnipresence too. Though we do not participate in divine nature fully in this life, at least it is possible in heaven. Therefore, it is not far-fetched to believe that saints in heaven have the power to hear our prayers. Moreover, passages from the book of Revelation (5:8 and 8:3-4) must presuppose that saints in heaven are able to hear our prayers in order to be able to offer them to God. Finally, if we can ask someone on earth to pray for us, why can’t we ask saints in heaven who are in the very presence of God to pray for us?

            Why God has given us the option to pray to him through saints in heaven is that he involves all human beings in the process of our salvation which is ultimately a participatory process, In this process all of us are responsible for one another. The saints in heaven are not exempted in this process. If salvation is only a matter between me and my God, then I don’t need Jesus also. But God became a man in Jesus so that salvation may be accomplished by Jesus through the Church. Somewhere Paul says that we are co-workers with God for building up his Church.

            Thank you.

        • bkg

          OK, so, I think maybe just a little tweak to this …. Um, what scripture indicates we pray TO Jesus? Jesus said to pray to the Father, in Jesus’ name. The Bible says to pray to God, in the name of Jesus. Consider how we use a mediator in business dealings. Does each side address the mediator? or do they address each other but use the mediator as a go-between. Also, what does Jesus mediate between – between God and man is the mediator – Jesus Christ the man 1 Tim 2:5.

          I agree with what you are saying to a point. If you change “If fellow Christians pray for me or I pray for them, it is to Jesus Christ”, to end with ‘it is THROUGH Jesus Christ’, then you are not crossing against scripture. Again, no scripoture tells us to pray TO Jesus, but we are told to pray THROUGH Jesus.

          If you ask the questions: “So, can I talk to Jesus?”. Why not, but in the sense of the Bible and prayers offered to God … it is through Jesus, not to Jesus.

        • James

          Yes bro, they need to know that forgiving sins is an attribute of God, that is why in Mark 2 Teachers of the law wanted to stone Jesus because he forgave sins of the paralysed man without knowing that Jesus did it to show them that he was God.
          How can a priest forgive sins, that is heresy and blasphemy!

      • Albert Devasahayam

        Nicely stated. Thank you.

      • bkg

        The problem here is how you use the word ‘saint’. Use the word in the sense the Bible uses it … Eph 1:1, Acts 9:13,41; Rom 1:7; 8:27 – these are examples. Saints are God’s holy ones, His believers. Rom 8:27 says the Jesus intercedes for the saints according to God’s will. There is a proper order that is given. God, delegated to Jesus as intercesor and mediator.

        You said, “To whom do the saints pray? To the Father through Jesus in the Spirit”.
        Well, correct – through the intercesor, the mediator, Jesus. If there are ‘other’ mediators or intercessors, between whom do they mediate? Does the priest mediate between a parishoner and God? Of course not. In your scenario, the priest brings a persons need to …? Jesus? Mary? a saint? – All of this contradicts the scripture; however, the Catholic tradition is that the church has higher authority that God’s Word … so, the tradition of men is what is being followed … to which I think the Lord had something to say … Mark 7:8, Col 2:9.

      • James

        praying for someone is totally different from mediating someone, don’t mix ideas.For you to understand why Jesus is one mediator as Paul put it, its because Jesus is the only man who never sinned, perfect like his father. Look at all the people who acted as mediators in OT, Moses, high priests etc, these could not be the perfect mediators because they sinned like all other saints that you think can be your mediators.
        You need to know a definition of a mediator, this is a person who stands between you and another person either to enable you reach the other person or to reconcile you with that person.
        How can a sinner play that role? That is why Jesus came to do what the Moses’ and high priests could not do.
        That is why the blood of animals regardless of having no defects could not wash us apart from that of Jesus Christ.

    • Sonja Corbitt

      olhg1: “Yet we don’t say the person himself did the preaching or teaching or baptizing or saving or even forgiving (because it’s often too hard); we know that God does those things through the person for us.” Does this sentence from the article put Jesus God Almighty “go to Guy” at the center for us non-thinking Catholics who insult our Savior by seeking His forgiveness?

    • Sonja Corbitt

      olhg1: “Yet we don’t say the person himself did the preaching or teaching or baptizing or saving or even forgiving (because it’s often too hard); we know that God does those things through the person for us.” Does this sentence from the article put Jesus God Almighty “go to Guy” at the center for us non-thinking Catholics who insult our Savior by seeking His forgiveness? Your argument is an insult to 1500 years of church history; that the priest is an “illegitimate” mediator in forgiveness is a “strange doctrine” that arose after Martin Luther.